>> The following program is a PBS Wisconsin Original Production.

>> A blowout election night has Democrats and Republicans analyzing what went right and what went wrong, and unprecedented threats over social media.

Has Wisconsin Republicans distancing themselves from the president?

[MUSIC] I'm Frederica Freyberg tonight on "Here& Now" Congressman Mark Pocan joins to stake his position on the war in Iran and the request to increase military spending, a wrap of the spring election, and how Democrats in the crowded field for governor are setting their sights on the primaries.

And our political panelists, Bill McCoshen and Scot Ross, tell us what this all means heading into the fall elections.

It's "Here& Now" for April 10th.

[MUSIC] >> Funding for Here and now is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

>> A terrifying week in global warfare brings cautious relief.

Days later, by way of a two week ceasefire in Iran, citizens on the sidelines may wonder where their congressional representatives stand and how they are responding to the war.

Tonight, we turn to second District Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan.

We should note we reached out to Republicans in several districts without reply.

Congressman, thanks very much for being here.

>> Sure.

>> Thank you.

So on Tuesday this week, the world was on tenterhooks waiting president Trump's threat that a whole civilization will die tonight unless Iran opened the Strait of Hormuz and then the announcement of a cease fire.

The white House says it was a tactic that worked.

What do you say?

>> You know, this is chaos piled on top of chaos, piled on top of uncertainty, right.

I don't think Donald Trump, from day one really had a plan on how to deal with what he was doing going into Iran.

And we're seeing that all unfold right now.

And that rhetoric just has been unseen by any world leader previously.

And and even now, the cease fire is still has all kinds of uncertainty.

We not exactly sure what all the standards were.

Donald Trump said he knows the ten.

He'll tell you if they're met.

That's ridiculous.

And Iran just I saw today said two conditions aren't met yet.

The stopping of the bombing in Lebanon and releasing some funds to them, which that was the first time I actually had kind of heard that part of whatever was negotiated.

So this is just a complete mess.

Our gas prices are going up, our respect across the world is going down.

And it was a war of choice.

There was no imminent threat to the United States.

And that's the only time the president could initiate this without Congress.

So, you know, to call it chaotic is probably an insult to the word chaos.

>> You and others have called to invoke the 25th amendment to remove Donald Trump from office.

Now, that would take the vice president and the majority of the cabinet to declare the president unfit.

So is is this really a rhetorical demand on your and others parts?

>> Yeah, I think this is a signal to the world that don't hate America.

There are normal people here because what Donald Trump is doing is hurting our place across the globe right now.

You know, some of our best trading partners in Japan and South Korea rely on like 70% of their energy coming through the Straits of Hormuz.

The fact that now they're paying the price of Donald Trump's bad decision, the fact that our best allies were not informed going into this.

So now they're not participating, which I totally understand.

But Donald Trump doesn't.

We have to express that as a nation.

This we understand this is a bad decision.

What he did in a couple of those those social media posts this week were beyond a bad decision.

And I seriously and many others question whether or not he's able to do this job.

But we want others to understand that many of us do question his capability.

>> Wisconsin polling shows that 61% of voters oppose this war, many of them probably in your district.

But what levers of power do you and others in Congress have over this?

Will Dems continue to push for a war powers resolution?

>> Yeah, we'll push for War powers resolution next week when we're back in Washington.

And I'll tell you, this is one where, you know, we need some of the Republicans from Wisconsin across the country to reach around their backs and feel if they have a bone down the middle called a spine, because it's necessary for Congress to stand up and stop Donald Trump from this chaotic behavior, it is up to Congress to initiate war.

That's according to the Constitution.

And I've heard a few Republicans say they're waiting 90 days and all this other stuff.

The Constitution doesn't say the Constitution gives the power to Congress on this.

So we have to act and take the responsible role in this.

And if we don't, then unfortunately, we continue to pay higher prices at the gas pumps.

We continue to hurt ourselves with other countries across the world.

So there's a lot riding on this.

And we need Wisconsin Republicans and others in Congress to stand up and and grow a spine.

>> Why should Wisconsinites care about a conflict happening half a world away?

>> A lot of reasons.

I mean, you're seeing it right now in gas prices.

They're up.

What about $1.20 a gallon right now because of what's going on?

This is going to continue for months.

If this ended today, Frederica, we will see gas prices in those increases for months to come yet.

So this was a terrible decision that was done by the white House.

But you should care because also our trade around the world is chaotic as Donald Trump's tariffs have been.

It's important that we have partners across the globe that buy American products that create American jobs.

And when we're hurting ourselves like we are with this right now, we jeopardize our role in being able to do that.

So it's about jobs.

It's about your pay.

It's about what you're paying for goods because we're paying too much for everything from groceries and everyday goods because of tariffs to health care and utilities, because of the big ugly law.

And now we're paying too much for gas because of this.

There's a lot of reasons we should pay attention and care.

>> As to rising inflation.

I see that consumer sentiment just ranked at the lowest on record in in the US.

And meanwhile, Trump's budget calls for $1.5 trillion in defense spending.

This would not be, I trust, a priority of yours.

>> No.

In fact, I think what the president said is we don't have money for things like child care because he wants to put it into the national the Pentagon's budget, essentially, because he's wasting so many weapons right now while he's doing this war of choice in Iran.

And, you know, I think if you talk to the average person, certainly the care is far more important than what he's doing right now.

So the fact that he doesn't understand, let's face it, he's the Epstein class, right?

He's a really, really rich guy who is out of touch with what it is to actually live paycheck to paycheck, to pay a mortgage, to make sure you have health care for your family.

Can you budget for a vacation?

This guy hangs out at Mar a Lago and has 20 Roaring 20s style parties.

That person doesn't understand what Americans are going through, and we see it because we're paying for the increase in prices.

So, you know, November, people can see a change.

They can change out some of the faces in the House and the Senate, and then we can finally have the ability to stand up and do proper oversight.

But right now, you know, it's tough times.

And we get the calls in the office and people are certainly nervous.

>> How do you think the war in Iran informs voters coming into the midterms?

>> Well, I think it just shows another bad decision, right?

The tariffs are a bad decision.

We know that.

And we're all paying more for groceries and everyday goods.

That big, ugly law where they gave a giant tax break to Elon Musk and people who belong to Mar a Lago that took away health care from people and more in November.

By the way, all the Medicaid cuts take place at that point.

So 15 million people lose health care and we're all paying more for it.

Plus, it made utility rates go up, and now we're paying more for gas because of the war.

So you look at all of this, and I think people are just kind of exhausted from the winning that Donald Trump keeps telling us.

I think, you know, most of us have a different definition of winning.

It's being able to, you know, have that little luxury of a snowmobile or a boat or whatever it might be.

But it's not just paying more for goods so that rich people get tax breaks.

what's your reaction to Liberal Supreme Court point victory this week?

>> Well, she was an extraordinarily good candidate.

I think they fielded an extraordinarily poor candidate by Supreme Court standards.

But people also are very frustrated with what's happening nationally.

And I think you saw that translate.

I mean, you saw mayors flip from conservative to more progressive across parts of the state that aren't exactly blue, maybe not even purple, but people are just frustrated with what's going on.

So I think you saw a lot of that.

But you know, Chris Taylor is going to be a great Supreme Court justice.

She's very smart, very savvy.

I've worked with her since my time in the state legislature.

She's going to help that court.

We need that court to probably get a kick in the butt, maybe to get a few more things done.

And I think she may just be that catalyst.

Congressman Mark Pocan, >> Sure.

Thank you so much.

>> Wisconsin's spring election saw a blowout win for Liberal Supreme Court candidate Chris Taylor, defeating Conservative Maria Lazar by 20 points as “Here& Now” senior political reporter Zac Schultz tells us it was an early night.

>> The crowd at Chris Taylor's election night party expected her to win the election for a seat on the Wisconsin Supreme Court, but that confidence didn't diminish the excitement for when the race was officially called before 9:00.

Since Liberals flipped the court in 2023, they've paraded their majority on stage on election night for a celebratory moment.

But with Chris Taylor's victory, the Liberal majority is now 5 to 2.

And with former Justice Anne Walsh Bradley on hand, the stage wasn't big enough, so they had to hold their group photo afterwards.

>> Wow.

>> Who?

>> We did it Wisconsin.

>> Contrary to the last two record setting elections, this one was quieter, with less outside interest groups spending fewer ads and lower turnout.

While justice elect Chris Taylor held an 8 to 1 spending advantage over her opponent, Maria Lazar.

Taylor praised her get out the vote effort for getting her supporters to the polls.

>> And I am so grateful for the grassroots support that I needed to win this race.

This was a grassroots campaign about the people of the state of Wisconsin.

And tonight the people of Wisconsin spoke.

And what you said is clear we are moving forward.

>> I have spoken with Chris Taylor and I have conceded, and that's okay.

>> At her event, Lazar was gracious in defeat, hugging supporters and consoling those who thought she could pull off the upset.

But the parties weren't even over before thoughts turned to the Wisconsin Supreme Court election next April, incumbent Conservative Justice Annette Ziegler has already announced she won't run again, and with conservatives having lost five out of six races, there's a real question of what it will take for conservative candidates and their Republican supporters to be competitive in the spring.

>> This race was run in a way that we were always behind catching up.

That's not how races are going to go from now on.

I want people in this state to demand better from your your candidates.

>> On the Liberal side, potential candidates for next spring need to decide soon if they're running in order to start building up the fundraising network that has been central to their winning streak.

Judge Pedro Colon was at Taylor's party and has talked about running in the past.

>> As I said, every race is unique, so I have to uniquely think about race for the Supreme Court.

But tonight is a great victory for the state of Wisconsin.

>> With their new five two majority, Liberals will control the court until a 2030.

Reporting from Madison.

I'm Zac Schultz for "Here& Now".

>> Now that the Supreme Court election is over, attention shifts to the next election.

Tom Tiffany, the only prominent Republican running for governor, responded to Tuesday's outsized win for liberal justice elect Chris Taylor.

>> We got our butts kicked last night, right?

There's no doubt about it.

And we should acknowledge that.

But the election that's coming up this fall in November is a new election.

And you guys know as well as anyone, every election is unique.

And I have built a campaign money, manpower and messaging.

We're going to compete on all fronts.

>> Before a challenger takes on Tiffany in November.

Seven Democrats are running to win the nomination in the August primary.

The first two Marquette polls have shown a wide open race, with 65% of all Democratic voters saying they haven't made up their minds.

Reporter Zac Schultz has been on the campaign trail and tells us how the Democrats are handling this crowded primary.

>> Sara Rodriguez >> Pick a city across the state.

you doing?

Good.

Are you.

>> In on any given weekend?

>> How are you?

>> There's a good chance.

>> First off, I'm Missy Hughes.

>> You'll find one of the Democrats running for governor, shaking hands and introducing themselves.

>> My name is Kelda Roys, and I'm running for governor.

launched their campaigns last year, but the polling shows the race has just started, with most candidates polling in the low single digits.

>> You know, we're about 5 to 6 months into this race and still have a long runway ahead of us.

>> The bottom line for the statewide poll, very credible, is that almost nobody has made up their mind about this, and it's a wide open race.

>> This is the first time I've run for office, so I'm excited to learn what Wisconsinites are really thinking about, what they're concerned about with the future.

>> No poll before people have actually started paying for communications is going to tell you anything reliable about the electorate.

>> What I say to them is really look at who can win in November, who has the most experience, who's been able to win in difficult races.

>> Only Mandela Barnes and Francesca Hong are polling above 10%.

>> Poll numbers are poll numbers doesn't change our program.

We're showing up all across Wisconsin.

We're talking to people, and there's a poll that came out two days before, showed me with a lead with eight points above the next person.

So polls are polls are always scattered all over the place.

>> Hong in particular is taking a different approach to the campaign.

We met her in La Crosse, where her event doubled as a benefit for Driftless Mutual Aid, and she skipped the speech and just helped the other volunteers.

>> We are organizing and community powered campaign, so events like this, community actions with support from mutual aid efforts.

This is what I hope more politicians will start doing.

>> With two thirds of all Democrats undecided.

Each voter the candidate convinces now has a chance to influence an even larger audience.

>> I'm seeing a ton of engagement around the state when I go to Brown County or Marinette, folks are showing up for meetings.

They want to understand where the candidates are, who the candidates are.

>> That makes these small meet and greets that much more important.

>> Clearly, this is an engaged electorate.

People who want to make sure that we are doing the right level of organizing to be ready for this fall.

>> I mean, you absolutely have your political junkies who are who are tuning in and asking a lot of questions.

But we also know there's a lot happening in the world.

election over.

It's a four month sprint to the August primary villain.

>> Incredible.

A few months in, actually incredible response all across the state, we've been traveling nonstop.

The response has been incredible.

We see the momentum continue to grow.

We see support increase all across Wisconsin.

>> I'm feeling really good about the race.

I'm feeling really good about what my team is doing.

We are going all across the state, all 72 counties, talking to everybody because I firmly believe you can't lead if you don't listen.

>> I feel great.

I feel like I'm getting a huge amount of momentum as I travel across the state, and it's really a joy to campaign when people are feeling like we're on the cusp of something different in Wisconsin.

>> Reporting from Madison.

I'm Zac Schultz for "Here& Now".

>> Governor Tony Evers Thursday signed a bipartisan bill into law that makes online sports betting legal in Wisconsin.

When those bets are made through servers located on tribal lands, Evers said the new law means a broader collection of tribal nations in Wisconsin could reap the benefits of increased gaming revenues.

The measure saw opposition from major operators like Draft Kings and FanDuel.

The 11 tribes will now negotiate new gaming compacts with the state to develop a model for sports betting.

In other news, the UW Board of Regents fired President Jay Rothman this week.

>> To terminate the UW system president.

>> And he is not going quietly.

The board voted unanimously to remove Rothman, who says he was blindsided by the decision with no reasons given.

In response, the state Senate Committee on Universities and Technical Colleges took public testimony from regents to speak to Rothman termination.

But the president of the region said personnel rules require confidentiality and they would detail their termination decision if Rothman would waive that confidentiality.

exactly what he is doing.

He is a sophisticated professional who understands that personnel matters are confidential.

And yet President Rothman, who understands all of this, has chosen to use that constraint as a shield, making public statements.

He knows I cannot rebut and framing a narrative he knows I cannot correct that is deliberately one sided.

That is not a search for truth.

That is strategy.

>> For his part, Governor Tony Evers said, quote, many see the ongoing threats to fire UW regents as Republicans attempt to leverage and flex their political power while they still have it.

Governor Evers making a comment there on political fortunes going forward.

What will those fortunes look like in the midterm elections?

We welcome our political panelists, Republican Bill McCoshen and Democrat Scot Ross.

And hello.

>> How are you?

>> Pretty good.

So Bill Tom Tiffany said Republicans got their butts kicked Tuesday night.

How, in your view did that happen?

>> Well, he's right about that.

If you're going to win statewide, you need three things.

You need money, organization and message.

Mom, we had no money.

We didn't look like we had any organization.

And I'm not sure what the message was.

So I think we failed on all three of those points.

And ultimately, it wasn't the worst Supreme Court election in state history, but it was pretty close.

And you know, when when Maria Lazar is losing her home county of Waukesha by 43,600, she got 43,600 fewer votes than Brad Schimel did in her own county.

That's a rough night.

>> Scott wasn't about the money advantage for Chris Taylor.

advantages before where I mean, I've been part of ones where the Republicans had all the money and the Liberal candidate didn't have any.

And we've never I haven't you know, the most I saw was like I think seven points back in 2013.

But the fact is, is that this is a combination of a couple things.

First and foremost, that the The Donald Trump Republican Party has taken us to war.

It's taken us into the poorhouse, and it keeps doubling down.

And I would point out that, you know, in the same interview where Tom Tiffany said they got their butts kicked, he also endorsed Trump's, you know, announced intention to commit war crimes and every economic policy that he has pushed forward, including trying to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

Considering this race was about fairness, freedom and rights, there's no wonder the Republicans lost.

factor is Trump in these elections?

was nationalized.

I don't agree with Scott on that.

It may have had something to do with some people staying home.

I mean, the truth is they didn't know Maria Lazar.

She raised less than $1 million, which is far less than Brad Schimel.

I mean, a year ago, we had the most expensive Supreme Court race in history, $115 million.

This one combined was around 10 million.

So people didn't know who she was.

So I'm not I'm not sure that Trump was a huge factor in this race.

But the truth is, you know, congrats, first of all to justice elect Chris Taylor.

But she won seven out of eight congressional districts, including Tom Tiffany's.

>> And they went up 7171 of the 72 counties had a higher performance than in 2025.

>> So how does this travel into November?

>> Well, I think I think that the trend is irreversible in terms of the Republican performance would just I mean, again, I just have to disagree because if you look at past elections, you know, like for instance, in 2016 where Rebecca Bradley, I mean, she lost, she won by 94,500 votes, you know, when there were 97,000 more Republicans who voted in the presidential primary that year, that's not even close to 20%.

It's not even close to double digits in terms of the difference between the two.

You know, Republicans have in the in the Trump era, lost races where tons of money, the most money ever spent, they've lost when not a lot of money spent.

They've lost by double digits.

Each time that we've had these things, it's just again, it's the brand is broken.

They are doubling down.

The cult will continue.

Tom Tiffany, Derrick, Van Orden and whoever.

Republicans can finally try and get to be leader of the Senate and Assembly or Republicans, you know, come November, you know, it's just a disaster.

But again, Democrats have to do the work in order to get there.

>> Not a great correlation between spring elections and fall elections in the state of Wisconsin.

If you look at 2023, Janet Protasiewicz won a Supreme Court seat by ten points.

2024 Donald Trump wins Wisconsin with the most votes of any statewide candidate in history.

So it's it's not a perfect correlation, but I would say it's a warning sign for Republicans, and they ought to take it that way.

>> So, Bill, what about the war in Iran and its repercussions at home?

>> I think it's having an impact in this respect.

Gas prices are up whether it's a buck, buck 50 and people feel that.

So the fundamental question that every voter has to answer when they go into the voting booth is, what's in it for me if I vote for X or Y?

And right now, that's not great for Republicans, for Republicans to have a shot this fall, gas needs to be at or below three bucks a gallon.

And if it's not, it's going to be a tough cycle.

>> Yeah, 33% gas prices have gone up since Trump's war of choice in Iran.

>> So if if that somehow gets resolved and those gas prices come down and inflation comes down, is it does it kind of revert to a regular cycle then.

>> Because people are still losing their health care, they're still seeing ICE, you know, the Gestapo in our streets, you know, killing Americans who do nothing more than protest.

Like those things aren't going to stop.

And the cult of Trump within the Republican Party of elected officials, specifically Derrick Van Orton and Tom Tiffany, who both, as Bill correctly pointed out, lost the congressional district.

I mean, Derrick Van Orton lost his district or Chris Taylor 1 Derrick Van Norton's district by 22 points.

Eau Claire and La Crosse were nearly 40%.

It could.

>> It could revert to a normal cycle before the war broke out in the Middle East.

The generic ballot was a couple points favorable towards Democrats.

That's something that Republicans can and compete in and win in.

Now it's 5 or 6, and in some polls it's eight points.

That's a much tougher environment for Republicans.

>> So, Scott, what about for Democrats in their splintered primary for governor with so many candidates?

there's more coverage of what Democrats are talking about because they're not attacking each other, not going after each other.

It's the same thing from 2018.

I mean, there were hardly any even contrast levels in the 2018 primary for for Democrats.

And what ended up happening, Tony Evers upset Scott Walker, who was trying to win a third term.

And didn't you know, I think that on top of, you know, not just that ballot, but talking I'm sorry to your question, not just talking about the Democrats in the in the in the primary, but what that's going to do for the down ballot, the state Senate and state Assembly.

I mean, we saw things like, you know, some of the targets, the best targets the Republicans have in the state Senate, Jeff Smith, Chris Taylor won his district by 30 points.

Like, you know, that's all I mean, there's even new there's new meat on the table as results of of Tuesday night.

>> Not surprising but a different take.

There's 123 days until the primary.

If they do not define one another Francesca Hong will be the Democratic nominee.

>> What's the money race going to look like?

>> It's going to be very different this fall.

Maria Lazar got no outside help, including from allied groups like the Federalist Society and WMC, who have always spent seven figures in Supreme Court races.

This fall, the money will be there for Tom Tiffany.

>> And what about the money on the Democratic side?

>> Golly yes, I think that the money is going to be there for Democrats because they have been an incredible fundraising you know, since Wikler.

Thankfully.

>> He's Wikler gone.

>> So but Devin's doing a good job of raising the money too.

You know, again, Democrats need to do what in order to win these races?

It's not about outraising the Republicans.

It's about a consistent, relentless assault on what Republicans stand for and how they are hurting the people of Wisconsin.

>> 207 days to go.

It's time to get the war over and get back to domestic affairs.

Ross, thanks very much.

Thank you.

For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBS Wisconsin.

Org and then click on the news tab.

That's our program for tonight.

I'm Frederica Freyberg.

Have a good weekend.

[MUSIC] >> Funding for Here and now is provided by the fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.