>> THIS WEEK MARKS 50 YEARS SINCE THE FALL OF SAIGON WHICH ENDED TWO DECADES OF BRUTAL WAR IN VIETNAM AND A REALIZATION BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND VIETNAM AND TRADE TALKS ARE ONGOING AFTER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IMPOSED ONE OF ITS HIGHEST RECIPROCAL TARIFFS AND HIM.

HE WAS THE AMBASSADOR THERE DURING TRUMP'S FIRST TERM AND JOINS WALTER ISAACSON ON WHERE THIS COMPLEX RELATIONSHIP IS HEADED NEXT.

>> THANK YOU AND WELCOME TO THE SHOW CUT AMBASSADOR.

>> THINK YOU AND WHAT AN HONOR TO BE HERE.

>> WE ARE NOW AT THE 50th ANNIVERSARY OF THE END OF THE VIETNAM WAR.

I DO THINK THEY HAVE INVITED SOME U. S. OFFICIALS AND REPRESENTATIVES TO BE PART OF THE HONORING OF THAT EVENT IN VIETNAM.

IT IS COMPLICATED.

SHOULD U. S. OFFICIALS BE THERE?

AND IS A FORMER AMBASSADOR, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE?

>> BEFORE I ADDRESS THAT VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION SQUARELY, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO STEP BACK AND REFLECT ON HOW JUST EXTRAORDINARY IT IS THAT THE UNITED STATES AND VIETNAM HAVE BUILT THIS PARTNERSHIP 50 YEARS AFTER THE END OF THE WAR.

I WOULD LIKE TO START THERE.

IT REALLY IS EXTRAORDINARY AFTER THE PAIN AND SUFFERING, THE BRUTALITY OF THAT WAR, THAT TODAY, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS MORE POPULAR THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD AND WE HAVE BEEN PARTNERS AND FRIENDS COOPERATING ON A BROAD RANGE OF ISSUES.

BUT ACHIEVING THAT CERTAINLY WAS NOT EASY.

AND I THINK A KEY PART OF BUILDING THIS EXTRAORDINARY ACHIEVEMENT OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS HAS BEEN THE WORK WE HAVE DONE ON LEGACY AND HUMANITARIAN ISSUES AND DEALING ON BOTH SIDES WITH AGENT ORANGE AND CLEANING UP .

THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF WORK AS WELL ON ADDRESSING OUR SENSITIVE HISTORY AND RESPECTFUL WAYS.

SO THAT IS THE FRAMEWORK I BRING TO THIS CURRENT DEBATE OVER WHETHER THE UNITED STATES SHOULD PARTICIPATE IN THIS APRIL 30 COMMEMORATION.

I THINK IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND, WALTER, AS WELL.

TO MY KNOWLEDGE, A U. S. AMBASSADOR HAS NEVER PARTICIPATED IN THESE APRIL 30 COMMEMORATIONS BEFORE.

I AM NOT AWARE OF ANY BEEN INVITED.

APRIL 30 COMMEMORATION IS VIETNAM'S ONLY CELEBRATION OF ITS VICTORY IN THE WAR AND ITS VICTORY OVER NOT JUST THE UNITED STATES BUT SOUTH VIETNAM AS WELL.

THAT HAVE NOT BEEN THE FOCUS OF THE UNITED STATES FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS.

WE ALWAYS FOCUSED ON THE JULY 11 ANNIVERSARY OF THE NORMALIZATION OF RELATIONS.

SO I THINK WHEN I LOOK AT THIS, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND, EVEN WITH THE EXTRAORDINARY PROGRESS WE HAVE MADE THAT THESE ISSUES RELATED TO OUR HISTORY REMAIN EXCEPTIONALLY SENSITIVE EVEN 50 YEARS ON AND ESPECIALLY AFTER YOU DO SOMETHING FOR THE FIRST TIME.

I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE FINAL DECISION MAY OR MAY NOT BE REGARDING AMERICA'S PARTICIPATION .

I THINK IT IS A GREAT SIGN WE WERE INVITED.

I CAN ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THESE ISSUES ARE SENSITIVE ESPECIALLY OUTLINED HERE BECAUSE IT WOULD BE THE FIRST TIME FOR US TO ATTEND VIETNAM'S OWN CEREMONIES.

WE ARE CELEBRATING MANY ANNIVERSARIES THIS YEAR.

IT ISN'T JUST THE 50th ANNIVERSARY OF THE END OF THE WAR BUT THE 30th ANNIVERSARY OF U. S. VIETNAM TIES AND THE 80th ANNIVERSARY OF THE COOPERATION BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND CHI MINH AND VIETNAM IN 1945 DURING WORLD WAR II.

I AM CONFIDENT WE WILL HAVE A TREMENDOUS CELEBRATION OF THE 30th ANNIVERSARY OF OUR RELATIONSHIP AT A MINIMUM.

I HOPE WE CAN FIND A WAY TO PERHAPS RESPECTFULLY AND CAREFULLY PARTICIPATE IN THESE APRIL 30 COMMEMORATIONS.

IF WE DON'T, I DON'T THINK IT WILL HAVE A TREMENDOUS IMPACT AND I AM CONFIDENT WE WILL GET THERE SOMEDAY.

>> YOU WERE AMBASSADOR TO VIETNAM DURING PRESIDENT TRUMP'S FIRST TERM.

>> YES, I WAS.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THIS HISTORIC PROCESS AFTER 50 YEARS AND BECOMING SO CLOSE TO THE UNITED STATES AND PART OF IT WERE THINGS YOU DID INCLUDING, I THINK , VISIT A NORTH VIETNAMESE CEMETERY FOR THE FIRST TIME.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT PROCESS OF HEALING THOSE WOUNDS.

>> THANK YOU FOR RAISING THAT.

I FOUND IT EXTRAORDINARY THAT DURING MY TENURE AS AMBASSADOR, AGAIN, ALMOST 45 YEARS AFTER THE END OF THE WAR THAT NO AMERICAN AMBASSADOR HAD EVER VISITED A NORTH VIETNAMESE MILITARY CEMETERY OR MARTYRS CEMETERY.

REQUESTED PERMISSION TO VISIT THAT IN VIETNAM AND I THOUGHT IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

MY APPROACH TO THAT , DRAWING ON OF COURSE THE TREMENDOUS WORK DONE BY MY MANY PREDECESSORS AND AMBASSADORS TO VIETNAM WAS TO TRY TO SHOW GREAT RESPECT FOR THOSE ON ALL SIDES WHO HAD SACRIFICED IN THE NAME OF PATRIOTISM.

OF COURSE, I VISITED THE VIETNAM WAR MEMORIAL HERE IN THE UNITED STATES MANY TIMES.

BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO MAKE A VISIT TO A NORTH VIETNAMESE MILITARY CEMETERY AS WELL.

I ALSO VISITED MULTIPLE TIMES THE MARTYRS CEMETERY IN SOUTH VIETNAM WHICH IS THE ARMY OF VIETNAM CEMETERY.

I WAS TRYING TO SHOW THAT EVEN THESE MANY DECADES AFTER THE WAR THAT IT IS STILL MEANINGFUL TO SHOW RESPECT TO ALL SIDES.

IT ISN'T TO APOLOGIZE.

IT IS SIMPLY TO SAY, THESE ARE SYMBOLIC ACTS THAT SHOW BOTH SIDES HAVE MOVED PAST THE TRAGEDY OF THE WAR EVEN AS WE DON'T FORGET THE LESSONS WE HAVE LEARNED.

WE CAN RESPECT ONE ANOTHER.

I DID DRAW INSPIRATION IN PART FROM THE AMAZING ENCOUNTERS I WITNESSED BETWEEN VETERANS ON BOTH SIDES.

IT IS INCREDIBLY MOVING TO SEE WHEN VETERANS FROM THE U. S. GET TOGETHER AND EVEN SOMETIMES UNITS WHO FOUGHT AGAINST EACH OTHER AND WHAT I WITNESSED WASN'T RANK OR ENTITY BUT A TREMENDOUSLY EMOTIONAL ENCOUNTER IN A VERY POSITIVE AND HUMAN WAY.

>> LET ME ASK YOU A TECHNICAL QUESTION .

DID YOU HAVE TO GET PERMISSION FROM THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE WHEN YOU WENT TO THAT CEMETERY?

>> AT THAT POINT I DIDN'T .

IT WAS MY ASSESSMENT AT THAT POINT THAT WHAT I WAS PROPOSING TO DO WAS IMPORTANT AND EVEN THOUGH IT WAS THE FIRST TIME, I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS SO SENSITIVE THAT IT REQUIRED ME TO GET PERMISSION IN ADVANCE.

I WILL SAY THAT SOMETHING AS SIGNIFICANT AS THE FIRST EVER AMERICAN AMBASSADOR TO PARTICIPATE IN THE APRIL 30 CEREMONY, I THINK IT IS QUITE NATURAL AND SOMETHING THAT OUGHT TO BE A DECISION BY THE ADMINISTRATION.

>> DURING THE PRESIDENCY OF GEORGE W BUSH, I WAS ASKED TO BE COCHAIR OF THE U. S. VIETNAM DIALOGUE AND CLEANING UP THE DIOXIN AT THE AIRBASE THAT YOU TALK ABOUT AND SUSAN FOUNDATION FUNDED IT AND HE WAS MY COUNTERPART THERE.

WE FELT THAT WAS A WAY TO REDUCE THE TENSIONS FROM THE WAR.

IS THAT GOING TO CONTINUE HOW THE CLEANUP OF THE AGENT ORANGE AND DIOXIN?

>> I WAS TOLD IT WILL AND I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT IS THE CASE.

AGAIN, I THINK IT IS VITALLY IMPORTANT THAT THAT WORK CONTINUE.

I USED TO ASK WALTER AND MANY FRIENDS AND THINKERS AND STRATEGY ERRORS AND OFFICIALS THAT HOW IS WE ACHIEVED THIS ACCOMPLISHMENT OF BECOMING FRIENDS AND PARTNERS AFTER THIS BRUTAL WAR AND I HEARD MANY INTERESTING ANSWERS TO THIS QUESTION INCLUDING THE FACT THAT THE VIETNAMESE FRIENDS THEY SAY THEY LIVE IN A ROUGH NEIGHBORHOOD AND AFTER A MILLENNIA OF STRUGGLES INCLUDING AGAINST THEIR BIG NORTHERN NEIGHBOR THEY DON'T HAVE THE LUXURY OF HOLDING GRUDGES AND OTHER FACTORS BUT ALMOST TO A PERSON THEY WOULD SAY THAT AMERICA'S LEGACY WAS VITAL TO THAT AS WELL.

IN THIS PLACE I DO THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO REALLY RECOGNIZE AND I AM GRATEFUL FOR THE WORK AND LEADERSHIP THAT YOU AND MANY AMERICAN CITIZENS HAVE CONTRIBUTED IN THE SPACE AND THINK ABOUT THE AMAZING WORK THAT SENATOR LEAHY AND OTHERS DID TO LEAD THIS EFFORT.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT I THINK IT WAS VERY CLEVERLY DONE THAT THIS ASSISTANCE FOR EXAMPLE FOCUSED ON REMEDIATION BOTH IN DENIAL AND THE VIETNAM AIRBASES OUTSIDE OF CHI MINH CITY.

BUT THERE IS ALSO WORK DONE TO TREAT THE VIETNAMESE WITH DISABILITIES IRRESPECTIVE OF CAUSE BUT IN THE PROVINCES THAT THEY MOST HEAVILY SPRAYED BY AGENT ORANGE IN THE WAR AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS QUITE A REASONABLE AND ELEGANT WAY TO FIND A WAY TO MOVE FORWARD.

OF COURSE, IF YOU FOCUS ON THIS, IT WAS REALLY INSPIRING TO ME TO SEE THAT REALLY ON BOTH SIDES IT WAS OUR WARRIORS WHO LET US BACK TO PEACE.

>> THE BIG ISSUE RIGHT NOW IN RELATION TO THE VIETNAM ISSUE IS TARIFFS.

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS PUT ALMOST 50% TERRACE OR ANNOUNCED IT -- TARIFFS AND THEY HAVE A VERY LARGE TRADE DEFICIT.

HOW DO YOU SEE YOUR WAY OUT OF THIS ISSUE?

>> IT IS A FANTASTIC SESSION.

YOU ARE RIGHT.

THIS IS THE QUESTION OF THE DAY THAT BOTH SIDES HAVE AS WE SPEAK.

IT ISN'T AN OVERSTATEMENT TO SAY THAT HANOI WAS SHOCKED BY THE LEVEL OF TERROR PLACED ON THEM.

THEY RESPONDED IN A PRACTICAL WAY.

I THINK OUR VIETNAM NINE -- VIETNAMESE COUNTERPARTS ARE PRACTICAL.

I THINK AFTER THE SHOCK AND BEWILDERMENT AND ANGER FELT IN PRIVATE THAT OUR VIETNAMESE FRIENDS QUICKLY REGROUPED AND CAME BACK TO THE TABLE I THINK IN CLASSIC VIETNAMESE FASHION.

AND NOW VIETNAM IS ONE OF THE PRIORITY COUNTRIES FOR THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WITH WHOM WE ARE TRYING TO NEGOTIATE A TRADE DEAL.

I AM TOLD THERE WILL BE A VIETNAMESE TRADE DELEGATION IN WASHINGTON THIS WEEK .

I THINK OUR VIETNAMESE FRIENDS ARE TRYING TO THINK THROUGH IN PRACTICAL WAYS HOW THEY ADDRESS THE CONCERNS OF THE U. S. INSIDE.

SO THEY THINK ABOUT THINGS LIKE INCREASING U. S. PURCHASES AND CHALLENGES IN THE MARKET AND THINKING ABOUT INVESTMENTS IN THE UNITED STATES.

I THINK THAT IS THE WAY TO APPROACH THIS IN A PRACTICAL WAY.

>> DON'T YOU THINK THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A TRADE DEFICIT INHERENT IN THAT RELATIONSHIP ?

>> WITHOUT A DOUBT , WALTER.

FIRST OF ALL, MOST TRADE DEFICITS, AND CERTAINLY NOT ONE OF THAT SIZE , CAN BE SOMEHOW QUICKLY REDUCED.

OF COURSE, THERE IS DEBATE AMONG ECONOMISTS WHETHER THAT SHOULD BE THE OBJECTIVE OF ANYONE.

WHAT I THINK OUR VIETNAMESE FRIENDS LEARNED FROM THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS THAT IF THEY CAN DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY ARE DOING WHAT THEY CAN TO REDUCE THE DEFICIT BY INCREASING PURCHASES OF AMERICAN AIRCRAFT AND LNG AND GRAIN ALIKE AND IF THEY ARE FIXING THEIR EXISTING ACCESS BARRIERS AND ALSO SUPPRESSING SOME OF THE TRADE OR INVEST IN THE UNITED STATES, I THINK THEY CAN MAKE PROGRESS.

MY BOTTOM LINE IS THAT I THINK IF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ONCE A TRADE DEAL WITH VIETNAM, THEN A DEAL CAN BE HAD BECAUSE VIETNAM IS READY TO NEGOTIATE AND CUT THAT DEAL.

ONE FINAL REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION HERE TOO IS IN THE U. S. SIDE WILL OBVIOUSLY PUSH VERY AGGRESSIVELY TO REDUCE ANY TRANSSHIPMENT OF CHINESE GOODS VIA VIETNAM.

IT WILL BE IMPORTANT FOR VIETNAM TO CRACKDOWN ON THAT AS WELL.

IF THERE WILL BE A DEAL WITH VIETNAM, IT CAN'T SERVICE THE BACK DOOR FOR CHINESE GOODS LOOKING TO EVADE U. S. LEVIES ON TARIFFS .

>> THE UNITED STATES LARGEST TRADE PARTNER IS CHINA.

ONE OF THE THINGS I WONDER IS WHETHER THESE TARIFFS BEING THREATENED BY THE UNITED STATES WILL PUSH VIETNAM CLOSER TO CHINA OR WHETHER VIETNAM DOESN'T WANT THAT AND FRIENDLY WITH THE UNITED STATES AND WHETHER THE UNITED STATES CAN MAKE A DEAL TO WEAN VIETNAM FROM CHINA'S ORBIT ?

WHAT YOU THINK?

>> I THINK VIETNAM IS ONE OF THE MOST SKILLED BALANCERS ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE I HAVE EVER ENCOUNTERED.

IT COMES FROM THIS STRONG STRATEGIC SENSE AND GREAT FOCUS ON PRACTICALITY.

I DO THINK THAT VIETNAM, OVER THE MILLENNIA, HAS REALLY STRUGGLED TO MAINTAIN ITS IDENTITY AND INDEPENDENCE .

CERTAINLY, IF YOU LOOK AT VIETNAMESE HISTORY, MUCH OF THAT STRUGGLE WITH AGAINST CHINA AND ITS NORTHERN NEIGHBOR.

THE VIETNAMESE ARE ALSO VERY PRACTICAL.

THEY KNOW CHINA IS AN IMPORTANT COUNTERPART .

AGAIN, VIETNAM IS ALWAYS STRIVING FOR BALANCE AND CHINA MAY BE ITS LARGEST TRADE PARTNER.

BUT THE U. S. IS THEIR LARGEST EXPORT MARKET.

VIETNAM UPDATED THEIR PARTNERSHIP IN THE U. S. IN 2023 TO A COMPREHENSIVE STRATEGIC PARTNERSHIP AND TOP-TIER WITH CHINA AND RUSSIA BUT OTHER KEY PARTNERS LIKE JAPAN, AUSTRALIA, AND INDIA AS WELL.

SO I DON'T SEE THE STRATEGIC GAINS AS BEEN TRYING TO PEEL THIS AWAY FROM CHINA.

I SEE THIS AS WE BELIEVE IT IS IN AMERICA'S INTEREST TO HAVE STRONG SUCCESSFUL SOVEREIGN PARTNERS AND IMPORTANT THAT WE PROVIDE THIS I THINK WITH THE ABILITY WHICH IS IN BOTH OF OUR INTERESTS TO MAINTAIN ITS BALANCE AND THE SOVEREIGNTY AND INDEPENDENCE AND NOT OVERLY INFLUENCED OR DOMINATED BY ANY COUNTRY WHETHER IT IS CHINA OR ANYONE ELSE.

>> CHINA'S PRESIDENT JUST VISITED HANOI .

WHAT HAPPENED IN THOSE MEETINGS?

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS QUITE NATURAL FOR THE PRESIDENT OF CHINA TO GO THERE AND AS WE DISCUSSED FOR VIETNAM, I AM SURE VIETNAM WAS MOTIVATED TO HOST CHINA BECAUSE IT IS LOOKING THE BALANCE WITH CHINA AND I THINK THEY WERE MOTIVATED TO TRAVEL NOT JUST TO HANOI BUT OTHER COUNTRIES IN SOUTH EAST ASIA BECAUSE CHINA IS PROBABLY TRYING TO PRESENT ITSELF AS A RESPONSIBLE ACTOR AND THE DEFENDER OF THE RULES-BASED INTERNATIONAL ORDER AND I AM SURE THEY HAD SOME OPPORTUNITY TO ADVANCE THEIR STRATEGIC INTERESTS ACROSS THE REGION AS THERE IS CONCERN OVER UNITED STATES TARIFFS.

BUT REFLECT THE NON-VIETNAMESE HISTORY AND STRATEGIC THINKING BY THEM, I THINK THEY ARE SEEKING BALANCE NOT TO ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER BUT I WILL ALSO CLOSE HERE ON THE VISIT OF PRESIDENT XI JINPING THAT I THINK PRESIDENT XI JINPING CAME NOT ONLY WITH CARROTS STICKS AS WELL AND HE ISSUED A PUBLIC WARNING THAT NO COUNTRY SHOULD CUT A DEAL WITH THE UNITED STATES THAT DISADVANTAGES CHINA'S INTEREST AND I AM SURE THAT WAS PART OF THE CONVERSATION AS WELL.

>> YOU ARE AND AMBASSADOR TO VIETNAM DURING THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

HOW HAS PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PRIORITIES CHANGED NOW WITH THE SECOND ADMINISTRATION?

>> WELL, WALTER, WHEN I WAS AMBASSADOR IN VIETNAM DURING THE ALMOST ENTIRE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND WAS THERE FOR HIS TWO VISITS TO VIETNAM , IN SOME WAYS THE PRIORITIES WERE QUITE SIMILAR.

WE MADE IT VERY CLEAR TO OUR VIETNAMESE FRIENDS THAT TRADE ISSUES WERE AT THE FOREFRONT OF OUR RELATIONSHIP.

WE WORKED VERY AGGRESSIVELY TO INCREASE VIETNAMESE PURCHASES OF UNITED STATES GOODS AND PERHAPS MORE IMPORTANTLY, TO REDUCE MARKET ACCESS AND NON- TARIFF TRADE BARRIERS TO COMPETE FAIRLY.

I THINK WHAT IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE FOR ME AND I KNOW FOR OUR VIETNAMESE FRIENDS, I THINK THE SECOND TRUMP MINISTRATION, WE HAVE SEEN IT BEING MUCH MORE ORGANIZED AND SYSTEMATIC AND AGGRESSIVE IN IMPLEMENTING A RANGE OF MEASURES INCLUDING TARIFFS.

I THINK UNLIKE THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THERE HAS BEEN VERY LITTLE DIALOGUE IN ADVANCE.

THERE HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCEMENT OF THESE AND THE CONCERN WAS ON THE PART OF THE VIETNAMESE AND OTHERS, WOULD THERE BE DIALOGUE NEGOTIATIONS TO DEAL WITH THOSE CONCERNS.

THE GOOD NEWS FOR ALL OF THE SHOCK CAUSED BY THE ANNOUNCEMENTS , I THINK THE VIETNAMESE ARE NOW CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC THAT THEY HAVE CHANNELS WITH WASHINGTON.

AGAIN, I MENTIONED THERE WILL BE A TRADE TEAM FROM VIETNAM HERE IN WASHINGTON THIS WEEK.

I EXPECT THAT VIETNAMESE TRADE TEAM IN THE U. S. TRADE TEAM LED BY TREASURE AND COMMERCE WILL GET DOWN TO BRASS TACKS QUITE QUICKLY.

AGAIN, IT IS THAT ORGANIZATION, PROBABLY THAT AGGRESSIVENESS, THAT IS THE BIGGEST SURPRISE TO OUR VIETNAMESE FRIENDS AND THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE FROM OUR FIRST ADMINISTRATION.

>> AMBASSADOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

WHAT AN HONOR TO BE HERE.