- Coming up next on IGI, we feature a panel of political experts who will discuss the 2021 Kansas legislative session.

Stay with us.

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(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to IGI.

I'm your host Washburn University Professor of Political Science, Bob Beatty.

Once again, we're going to begin a new year and a new season of IGI by discussing the upcoming legislative session, and what we anticipate will be the primary issues.

We'll also discuss the January 6 riot at the US Capitol, and what impact, if any, it could have on the 2021 session.

Joining me now are Michael Smith, Emporia State University Professor of Political Science, and via Zoom, Amber Dickinson, Washburn University Assistant Professor of Political Science.

Thank you both for joining me on IGI.

Well, I wanted to start, with some recent events include... a lot has been going on, and the January 6 riots that then led to the impeachment of Donald Trump, and let me start with Michael Smith, just to get your impressions of the political ramifications of those events.

- Well, one of the issues we're gonna have to deal with Bob is the role of conspiracy theory in virtually every aspect of governing.

I was just talking with reporter Jim MacLean, who is doing some work in rural Kansas and found that conspiracy theories could be a major factor in people refusing the coronavirus vaccine.

They were a huge factor in the Capitol rioting.

And so one of the questions we have to ask is what is the role of democracy when we have so many citizens that believe in an alternative reality.

At the same time, we have real practical challenges, right?

We want the economic recovery, the sooner the better, we want the vaccine distributed properly and in an orderly way.

And so there are just a variety of competing priorities but really we live in two separate realities.

So which of those realities you live in will determine what those priorities are.

- Yeah and a lot of people on January 6th, said they were surprised, but there was also part of me that said, I wasn't incredibly surprised.

Because as you sort of allude to, not only just the conspiracy theories, but some of the rhetoric we'd been hearing for four years plus going back to the campaign, sort of made violence, or discussion or joking about violence, almost normal.

And so in that sense, unfortunately, I wasn't surprised.

Amber Dickinson, your thoughts?

- No, I was not surprised at all.

The rhetoric that we've been listening to for the last four years really alluded to the fact that this was going to certainly happen.

I was however horrified in particular, at the response that we saw, not only from the actions of the rioters, but from, and the police response, in particular I think, this is going to become even more divisive in our population when we evaluate the response to things like protests of Black Lives Matter, on the Capitol and the response to that in comparison to the response of what we thought in January 6th.

Then I think what we really see is that, we're living in different Americas.

And depending on how you look, you're going to be treated differently and it's going to dictate which America you live in.

- Let me stick with you Amber very quickly.

During the impeachment discussion, I heard some representatives say that they were against impeachment because they said this would further divide the country.

And I did wonder if there is somebody or something, that's very divisive and then to say, but we can't do anything about that because it would lead to more division.

Isn't that rewarding the initial sort of divisive action?

- Absolutely, it is.

And I think overall, in addition to these comments that were being made about divisiveness, I think one of the most outstanding comments to me were these somehow questioning that this was not related to the Brandenburg versus Ohio Supreme court ruling in 1969, that said, "Look you've got this two-prong test "that decides what kind of speech is going to cause "what we saw."

I think to me, that struck out perhaps more than the comments about encouraging divisiveness.

Just this idea that somehow, this was not inciting this lawless action that we saw take place.

- You know, it's quite remarkable that amidst all this news, we also had elections in Georgia in which the Democrats and I was surprised by this, took back the US Senate by winning both races.

Michael what possible impact on Kansas could there be with one, a Biden administration, and then two, the Democrats having control of both the House and the Senate?

Which by the way, is the first time.

This is the first time since Herbert Hoover, for an incumbent president to lose reelection, and then also essentially, lose the House and the Senate the trifecta.

What impact on Kansas might there be?

- It seems like we keep making history every day.

Doesn't it?

Kansas has a bit of a problem in that only one member of its congressional delegation is a Democrat.

That Sharice Davids.

And typically, you want to have representation in the majority caucus.

For the committee assignments, for the opportunities to help your state.

And Davids represents an entirely different kind of Kansas.

The Kansas City area.

And so Kansas may be at a disadvantage there in terms of having clout in Congress.

Now in the past, we wouldn't say that.

Right?

Especially in the Senate, loyalty to the Senate was more important than loyalty to your political party back in like the Bob Dole days.

But those days are long gone.

And we're so hyper charged and so partisan, that I don't know how much Davids can do to represent a very different part of Kansas than the part that voted for her.

And Michael, you know quite a bit about the Johnson County, Wyandotte County, that 3rd District of Kansas.

- Right.

- Is Kansas a bit emblematic of America.

This idea of now there's two camps in the sense that Johnson and Wyandotte Counties, the 3rd District went for Joe Biden, has elected Sharice Davids, whereas much of the rest of the State went for Trump.

Are there any ramifications for this growing possible division in the State?

- Yes and yes.

(laughing) The first part of your question, absolutely so.

Johnson County voted for Joe Biden by about eight points.

First time Johnson County has gone democratic since Woodrow Wilson.

And Wyandotte County is really interesting because it actually had a red shift.

Still voted democratic, but it's emblematic of Trump's popularity with working class former Democrats.

Remember there are two voters out there who voted for Barack Obama and Donald Trump, for everyone who voted for Mitt Romney and Hillary Clinton.

Now we'll have to get the data for 2020 and see how that plays out.

But absolutely.

Johnson County is being studied nationally as an example of how the suburbs are shifting.

Wyandotte County, with a little bit of a red shift is worth studying as well.

And in terms of representation, one possibility you may see is more localism, that with the Kansas City area in both States may push for more independence in terms of their hospitals.

And remember many of the best hospitals in Kansas are in the Kansas City area.

What are their responsibilities to treat people from communities where wearing masks is not widespread for example.

And there may be a push for more localism that look, just let us make our own laws because we're so different from the political culture of other parts the state.

- That is interesting now.

Amber, I know you teach a lot about legislative politics.

We had this interesting situation in Kansas where one Senator, Roger Marshall, voted essentially with Donald Trump, and for to not certify the State's electoral votes.

Essentially really siding with Donald Trump.

While the other Senator Jerry Moran, made a pretty clear statement.

He thought it was unconstitutional.

And even now the Republicans would now be in the minority, is there at least the possibility that Jerry Moran may be able to work with Democrats or they may treat Roger Marshall a little more hands-off?

- I really think that it's going to be important for the legislators to find a way to act in a more bipartisan fashion than they ever have before.

Especially if the true goal is to create reasonable policy that will help Americans.

And so I think regardless of how they voted, which it's telling, the way they voted, but regardless of that, I think it's important that they figure out a way to move forward and start working across the aisle.

I'm just not entirely sure how anything positive is going to come about in this legislative session.

- Now very quickly Amber, when Barack Obama became president and how the House and the Senate there, in retrospect, some Democrats complained that he was too cautious.

That he didn't use his essentially two years he had to get through the stuff that they wanted to get through.

And then it became an eight year slog.

Even with the affordable CARE Act, there was too many compromises.

So there's some Democrats, maybe some more progressive than others that are saying, Hey, Democrats you've got two years get as much done as possible, damn the torpedoes.

Does that sort of go against your idea of more bipartisanship?

- Well, it shouldn't theoretically, right?

We should have leaders that are acting in the best interest of the citizens, but of course we know politics will come into play and people will be playing political games so that they can obtain reelection.

So unfortunately, I think we're gonna see the same old, same old, right?

I think that incoming President Biden has made this pledge to immediately take some actions that might move some things forward using executive orders.

But I just don't know that we're going to see any different behavior from our legislators than politics, like we're used to, even though I think it's contingent upon them to behave differently.

Okay, let's move to the State of Kansas.

We were actually been discussing Kansas, but hone in on a number of things.

Before we really get dive into the specifics, let's hear from Governor Laura Kelly, and her a piece of State of the State address, and then also the Republican response to that.

So we'll hear from that right now.

- This year, working together, isn't simply something I want.

It's something we owe to the people of Kansas.

This year, as leaders, we must commit ourselves to set an example in how we conduct ourselves, in the things we say to each other, what we post on social media, in what we tell people back home in our communities.

This year, we must show Kansans that, even when we stand on opposite sides of the aisle, we still always share a common bond as Kansans and Americans.

And right now, that means doing whatever it takes to get Kansans back to work, back to school, and back to a place where we treat each other with respect and dignity.

We need to listen to public health experts.

We need to listen to each other.

We need to listen to the people of Kansas.

And then we need to lock arms.

Not as politicians from one party or the other, but as Kansans.

Kansas' Republicans believe the policies we enact into beacon, must first and foremost protect our constitutional liberties, and always trust Kansas to know what is best for themselves, and their families.

We trust you to make the decisions for yourself and your family as to how best to stay safe.

We will not support the Governor's regime of unconstitutional mandates and edicts.

We trust you we'll always make the best decisions for your family, not the government.

- Now, you know, I probably parse these things too closely or get obsessed.

But that really caught my eye when Senate President Ty Masterson used the word regime.

So on the one hand, we have the Governor really talking about bipartisanship, and working together, and saying, let's set an example, and then we have the usage of a word like that, which I can't imagine the Governor would be too happy to hear about it.

'Cause the connotations you get.

So, I mean, I'll go right to Michael, did you catch that too?

Or am I sort of overdramatizing it?

- I didn't catch it on my first listen.

And I've listened to the State of the State a couple of times, but I do think you make a good point.

And in terms of what that's a reference, maybe it's just political rhetoric, pushing the hot buttons, or dog whistling, as we've been saying these days.

But another possibility is that, it's a reference to coronavirus related mandates, particularly mask and stay at home orders.

And that was fascinating that Masterson opened by saying he'd lost his own father to the virus, and then continued on to be highly critical of sheltering in place another mandates as many Conservatives are.

So I assume that's what that was a reference to.

- And Amber, your response to both those clips.

- I think absolutely the use of the word regime was a very serious choice.

And I think it was in part a way to sort of echo the kind of rhetoric that we've heard President Trump putting out for the last four years.

I think, what I tend to focus on was the part where Masterson made the comment of, you know we trust the people to be responsible, but unfortunately what we're seeing with the numbers that we're experiencing in Kansas is that people are not being responsible.

And so I think that, to play on people's emotion by using a word like regime is really irresponsible of Masterson to do.

I think that Governor Kelly had a more sort of measured or low key statement.

However, when you look at the rest of the statement that she made, she was clearly signaling that she has a clear stance on some things.

And so she was signaling that she is going to butt heads essentially with Masterson.

- Yeah.

I was asked a couple of days ago, can the Republicans and the Governor get along?

And unfortunately, I tend to think the default answer right now is no, and what I hope is they'll prove me wrong.

And again, it just seems like going into this, the idea would be during a pandemic, during a massive economic crisis, that people would work together.

But to Michael, to your discussion about the mask, to many people, they never imagined there would be an actual continuing debate about following science and mask wearing.

I think that when history is written, that will be the the paragraph that people keep coming back to.

Okay.

So let's get to some specifics.

There has been some criticism, on the Republican side which I think will continue of the vaccine distribution.

Actually let me go to Amber on this.

Governor Kelly discussed this in her State of the State, do you feel that she adequately explained what the problems with vaccine distribution have been?

- No.

I think that she said clearly we need help from the federal government on this.

And then she did discuss sort of these IT issues that were taking place.

But I think for the people of Kansas, that was not a sufficient explanation.

And I think that while there were some numbers given out about who should be receiving the vaccine and when, this sort of vague comment that we need more from the federal government and perhaps this is some kind of IT issue.

I just do not feel that that was an adequate explanation for why this is playing out the way it is.

- Michael.

- Governor Kelly is really developing something of a pattern.

It also happened with the Department of Labor computer systems, is the slow rollout and catch up.

And under Kelly, oftentimes initial new important government actions are a little slow to get going.

And then there's this catching up period where Kansans' catches up and does reasonably well.

I don't know what's behind that.

And no, she didn't talk about the causes in the speech.

- And certainly the Governor would pay exactly it's worth for my advice, which is nothing.

But I actually had several people tell me this is that on the ground, the people on the ground said, who's in charge about the vaccine distribution?

And I think that's one of the problems is what, you have the Governor technically, you know maybe in charge, but as at counties, and then who in the county?

And you do sort of wonder maybe there should have been or there still could be a Vaccine Czar, someone that can answer these questions, and also sound the alarm when things aren't going, and is there 24 hours is heading out there.

That's what I'm hearing.

Is that people wanna know where do they turn?

I mean, just for example, there's reports that some counties have the websites for when the vaccines come, and then you sign up to get to get the vaccine.

they're ready to go, and some counties don't.

Actually some of the larger counties don't.

So I think vaccine distribution is going to be something in the legislature that they're gonna continue actually to talk about and really press the Governor on.

Okay.

One of the first thing that's going to be voted on is on the subject of abortion, and I know both of you have been looking into this.

So I'll start with Amber and tell us about this abortion issue, and then we'll go to Michael.

- Okay.

So it's a constitutional amendment called Value Them Both.

It was introduced in 2020, and it fell short of passage, but now there's a super majority in both Chambers, and so there's high likelihood that we'll see this go through.

It's the language in the amendment doesn't allow or require government funding for abortions, which is quite redundant because as we know that there's federal regulations that says, the only time you're gonna see any kind of taxpayer money involved is under Medicaid, only in the case of rape, incest or a threat to the life of the mother.

When you look at the numbers on this since 2013, Kansas has only seen four abortions that fall under that category that were paid for through Medicaid which comes in at just under $2,000.

That's not for individual taxpayer, that's for all taxpayers in the State of Kansas.

You've also got this issue of the constitutional amendment, basically claiming this is the 10th Amendment State's Rights Issue, and that because state governments have the right to police power, and under police powers, this category of health of citizens that Kansas should have this right to make the determination on their own.

I really questioned the need for something like this, in particular, when we see the motivations of some of the legislators pushing this as saying, we really are concerned about protecting children.

But my concern is, if we're really concerned about protecting children, why aren't we looking at food insufficiency, which we've got one out of five children in this State going hungry?

Why aren't we looking at this overwhelming burden in our foster care system?

Why aren't we looking at the problem of prenatal care being a huge problem in that one in 10 infants in this State are not receiving adequate prenatal care.

So if there really is this big concern about protecting children in this State, I'm just not entirely sure why we're focusing on this constitutional amendment that will no doubt be challenged in the courts and will then cost perhaps more money to taxpayers than we really understand.

- And Kansas has spent quite a bit of money in the last few years, defending some of the legislation.

Michael, how about the politics of this?

Do you think it will pass?

Meaning it will become an amendment, and two, I'm assuming they want to put it, the Legislature majority wants to put it on the 2022 primary ballot, because that would mean it would have a better chance of passing?

- That's it, Bob.

So a little bit more history.

In 2018, the Kansas Supreme Court handed down a ruling similar to the Roe V. Wade decision, but based on the State Constitution, not the Federal Constitution, 'cause of course it's judicial federalism upholding abortion rights.

And this is essentially to reverse that.

So it wouldn't so much impose restrictions on abortion, has opened up the possibility of imposing by reversing that court decision.

You're totally right, Bob.

There's a big political piece to this and that is what ballot do you put it on, and what voters will turn out to vote for or against it.

Because they tend to also vote in other races for a state representative, and a host of other offices that can change the balance of power.

- Yeah, thanks.

And the other big issue in Kansas on the Governor has been Medicaid expansion.

But it just looks like from the Republican side that they the votes not to allow it to happen, even though a number of polls have showed that Kansans do want it to occur.

Amber, the other issues that you think are coming up, we just have a few minutes, what's one that you think will play out in the legislative session.

- I think there's gonna be big conversations about tax reform.

I think you've got the Governor making a clear statement about that in her State of the State saying that we don't want Brownback 2.0, and that we need to focus on economic inclusivity.

And then you've got, of course, Masterson making comments to the effect of looking at these sort of tax reforms that might benefit certain groups over the other.

So I think that'll certainly be something that we see a lot of focus on.

- Michael, what other issues do you see?

- Budget shortfalls could be a huge issue.

Tax collections.

The Governor has raised this issue of sales taxes on internet purchases.

Kansas is much more cautious in doing that, which actually punishes brick and mortar, retailers and small businesses, and rewards big out of state businesses that don't create as many jobs in Kansas.

It also causes a loss of revenue.

So things looked kind of good in the fourth quarter, so maybe it won't be so bad, but revenue's gonna be a huge issue.

Amber, do you see medical marijuana...

This being the year that medical marijuana may finally pass?

Again, it's been one of those things that every year that comes up, it just doesn't seem to do it.

And what's the holdup in Kansas in particular 'cause we know that not just Colorado, but some conservative states have at least allowed medical marijuana.

What it is about Kansas, that it's hard to get this passed?

- I think this is a morality issue for people.

I think that as opposed to focusing perhaps on the medical benefits of allowing this to pass, that there's more of a focus on this as being something that's taboo, or that some people classify as being inappropriate, and I really just think this is a focus on morality versus looking at perhaps medical science.

- Can I also add?

- Yeah.

- It's also a border issue, because Missouri has medical marijuana.

Do we really want Kansans who have prescriptions and fill them in Missouri, to use the marijuana while they're still in Missouri before driving home to Kansas?

Or would it make more sense for them to go ahead and go home and use it at home in Kansas?

- And we have about literally 30 seconds.

But do you see this, Michael, as similar to the gambling issue?

You remember many years ago, Kansans just could not pass a casino bill, and then it got passed, and now nobody really seems to care?

(gentlemen laughing) (indistinct) And so, is this idea that possibly once this medical marijuana is passed, there may be so like, you know, what was all the fuss actually, 20 seconds?

- I think you're probably right.

Our colleague Burdette Loomis calls those dogs that won't bark.

(gentlemen laughing) Sometimes they're just things sitting around there.

Why aren't we talking about the drainage of the Ogallala Aquifer, when global warming is real and that's getting worse.

Drought management.

There are a host of issues that we're not talking about.

Even the division of family services issues that were on the agenda.

- Alright thanks, Michael.

That's all the time we have for this episode of IGI.

If you have any comments or suggestions for future topics, send us an email at issues@ktwu.org.

If you'd like to view this program again, or any previous episodes of IGI, visit us online at watch.ktwu.org.

For IGI, I'm Bob Beatty.

Thanks to Amber Dickinson and there Michael Smith, and thanks for watching.

(upbeat music playing) - [Announcer] KNEA, empowering educators, so that educators can empower Kansas students.

- [Advertiser] This program is brought to you with support from the Lewis H. Humphreys Charitable Trust, and from The Friends of KTWU.